The Universal Geneve 885103/02 was produced from 1964 until 1967, based on my research on serial numbers, though Universal Geneve puts the catalog availability from 1964 through 1976 [1] (if you have a later catalog showing the Universal Geneve 885103/02, please contact me).
Universal Geneve 885103/02 “Nina Rindt”
Otherwise known as the “Nina Rindt”, the 885103/02 is powered by the Valjoux 72, features a white dial with black registers. Depending on date of production, there are differences in hand colors and sizes, different logos on the dial (applied or printed), and multiple different logos on the crown.
As an aside, I am not a fan of watches with nicknames, but as long as they are given names, I’m glad someone at least selected Nina Rindt to name it after (as near as I can tell, around 2005). And given that, it would be wrong not to revisit some of the images from the 1960s of Nina with her Universal Geneve 885103/02 to kick things off:
Nina Rindt wearing her Universal Geneve 885103/02, one of the two watches she commonly wore in the 1960s.
This section will not touch upon the 885103/01, which is known as the, sigh, “Evil Nina”, and features a black dial with white registers, among other differentiating features.
[1] Universal Geneve (email, April 20 and 21, 2020).
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Serial Number Project
Below is an aggregation all of the Universal Geneve 885103/02 (aka “Nina Rindt”) pieces I have located. If you find others, please contact me with a link and/or images and serial number if available. I am not including the “Evil Nina” (885103/01) in this serial number project.
This project is limited in number of serials that are available, as many pieces are posted online without caseback images or serial number provided. I have seen reference to comments that these serials were easily worn off, but just as often it appears from images that the caseback has been polished completely, or a non-original caseback is used.
I am only listing the “second register hand design” just to keep the table relatively manageable (fewer columns). The other two register hands should both be the same design as the second register hand. This can be confirmed by clicking on any row, which brings up full detail for the watch selected.
Universal Geneve 885103/02 (aka “Nina Rindt”) serial numbers: 2351729 – 2569859.
There are a number of pieces that are 2569xxx, with the last 3 digits unknown.
I am setting aside, for the moment, comments on the range for the 855105/02 (Pulsations dial), including a sale at Phillips of a 3.7m serial.
In the table below, each row is intended to be unique, though given serial numbers are often not shown, the same watch may appear multiple times. I do my best to use visual cues to pair the same watch posted at different times and locations. When the serial number can’t be established, I give the timepiece a unique ID (based on any part of the serial that is known, if any, plus a related date posted).
If you see any duplicates, errors, have serial numbers to include, or know of other Ninas to add, please drop me a note.
Caveats:
Description of pieces are generally based upon public images/video. For some detail, we do not have images and have to rely on text descriptions from the individual posting the timepiece. Some elements are often difficult to determine from pictures, including color of hands. For example, whether the chrono seconds hand is black or blue, and crown logo, rounded or pointed. If I have a 50-50 guess, I leave the detail as “unknown.”
My research is focused on the “Nina Rindt” (primarily the Universal Geneve 885103/02, though I will touch upon the Pulsations reference in the Bezel section), as opposed to the 885103/01 “Evil Nina”, which is identified by its black dial and white registers.
The Nina (885103/02) was manufactured with two different dials, with the most noticeable difference being the Universal Geneve logo, which is either applied or printed.
The two dials found on the Universal Geneve 885103/02
Both dials are primarily white, with any print in black, including dial text (UNIVERSAL GENEVE, COMPAX, SWISS T (and 25 if applicable), and hour/minute/second and 1/5 second marks.
The registers are black with white numerals and marks. The running seconds has numerals (no marks) at 20, 40 and 60, and equal length marks each of the other 5 second increments. The 30-minute register has numerals (no marks) at 10, 20 and 30, with marks at the other minutes, primarily shorter marks, with a slightly longer mark at 5, and the longest marks at 3, 6 and 9 minutes. The 12-hour register has numerals (no marks) at 3, 6, 9 and 12, with marks of equal length for all other hours.
Both dials have the same luminous on the dial, which are at the outside end of most hour marks (1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11) as a square. At 3, 6 and 9 the luminous is rectangular, replacing an hour mark. At 12 there are two square lume plots, side by side above and centered horizontally over the hour mark.
Differences in early and late dials:
Early dial: seen up to 2.4 serials
The first dial has an applied silver Universal Geneve logo. This raised reflective logo dial is known best to the community as the “Mark 1” version of the Nina. This dial pairs with specific set of main hands, detailed in the Main Hands section. These dials are marked “SWISS T” below the 6 o’clock index mark.
Later dial: seen from 2.5 serials and on
This dial, known as the “Mark 2”, has a printed black logo, with a “U” within a box. Per Universal Geneve, the manufacture made the switch from applied to printed logo on dial in 1971 [1] – actually I found it somewhat curious they would even provide this date, but not provide information on date of changes in register hand design or crown logo. This dial pairs with a different set of main hands (see Main Hands section for details). These Mk 2 dials are marked “SWISS T 25” below the 6 o’clock index mark.
There is one later ‘printed logo’ dial seen with a 2.4 serial on the caseback. This may have happened during the transition period, though I would be interested in seeing more later dials with 2.4 serial numbers before claiming this as correct.
Some claim that the 2.569 serials are more likely to develop tropical dials. While I have seen a few in the 2.569 range that are tropical, with such a low number it is difficult for me to say that I believe that range is more likely than 2.4 to be tropical, as we see a number on that batch as well.
[1] Per Universal Geneve (email, April 20, 2020).
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Bezel
The Universal Geneve 885103/02 came with only a tachymetre bezel, per Universal Geneve. [1] I see a handful of 885103/02 with pulsations bezel publicly, however.
Tachymetre bezel
The tachymetre bezel is the most common, and can be found across all serial ranges. It is graduated from 60 to 500 units.
The Universal Geneve 885105/02 came with only a pulsations bezel, per Universal Geneve. [1] I only see one 885105/02 with tachymetre bezel.
Pulsations bezel
The pulsations bezel is based on a 30 pulsations scale, and appears exclusively on pieces with serials at 2.5m and later.
I have seen one example of a Nina with pulsations dial and noted as reference 885105/03, though the stamping on the caseback to confirm that is the reference number cannot be seen. Given I have never seen another Nina example using this reference number, I’m inclined to believe this reference should have been listed as 885105/02.
There is discussion online that purports when a Nina dial was fitted with the pulsations bezel in the factory, it is reference 885108. However, no image is shown in this discussion, and I have never seen an image of a Nina with pulsations bezel and this serial number. Per Universal Geneve, “the reference Compax UG 885108 has a dark and light blue dial with three small white counters” and “has been produced only with a tachymeter blue bezel with a scale based on 1000.” [2]
The standard Tachymetre bezel, and less common Pulsations
[1] Universal Geneve, email April 30, 2020
[2] Universal Geneve, email May 5, 2020
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Main Hands
The Nina used two sets of main hands, including hour, minute and chrono seconds, which were specific to certain Nina serial numbers and Nina dials.
Both combinations of hands have the same length for each type of hand. The hour hand extends nearly to the inside end of the hour mark, with a slight gap. The minute hand will extend all the way to between the end of the 1/5 second marks and the second/minute marks. The chronograph second hand tip extends all the way to the 1/5 second marks, the tail should not extend into the registers (hand should end at COMPAX when is at 0).
The main hand sets found on the Universal Geneve 885103/02
Early hands: seen up to 2.5 serials
The first set of main hands were silver, with lume, for both the hour and minute, and a blued chrono seconds hand, also with lume. These hands were used on the early Nina “Mk 1” dials.
Later hands: seen from 2.5 serials and on
Later hands were all black with lume, including hour, minute and chrono seconds. These were used exclusively on the later Nina dials.
I have seen two examples of watches with non-luminous chronograph seconds hand, both existing on pieces with pulsations bezels. The reference 885105/02 of these two has the highest serial of any Nina I have seen, so the possibility exists that Universal Geneve simply depleted the supply of luminous chronograph seconds hands and used a non-luminous hand.
Universal Geneve has stated that “885105/02 with a black pulse-counting bezel has been produced only with ‘Bâton’ hands with central fissure for tritium for registers, hour, minute and center chronograph.” As reference, the company has stated that the 885108 also “has been produced only with ‘Bâton’ hands with central fissure for tritium for registers, hour, minute and center chronograph.” [1]
[1] Universal Geneve, email May 5, 2020
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Register Hands
There are three types of register hands used on the Universal Geneve 885103/02 “Nina Rindt”. All are painted white.
The three register hands found on the Universal Geneve 885103/02
Thin hands
These hands, notably for Ninas, lack lume.
They are original to the earliest applied logo dials, with serials up to 2.41m. These “thin” hands extend all the way to the end of the register marks. We see these hands paired with applied logo SWISS T dials and silver main hands.
Midsize hands
The revolution begins! Lume in the register hands! I refer to this style as “midsize” hands, where the diameter of the hand around the post is wider than the remainder of the hand. Some call this “tapered”, but the width of the hand as it extends from the post is the same all the way to the tip. The lume is less than 1/3 of the length of the hand, and about 1/3 as wide, rectangular in shape. These hands extend nearly all the way to the end of the marks, though some images seem to indicate they don’t quite cover the entire mark. We see these hands in 2.45m serials, and can be found with applied logo SWISS T dials and silver main hands. For these midsize and the later thick register hands, Universal Geneve notes that pieces should all have “85” on the bridge [1].
Thick hands
Ninas, and other Universal Geneve pieces, are often known best for this “thick” hand, where the width of the hand is the same surrounding the post all the way to the tip (so the shape is a rectangle), and has lume as well. The lume is 1/3 of the length of the hand, and about 1/3 as wide, and again, rectangular in hand shape. These “thick” hands extend nearly all the way to the end of the marks, though some images seem to indicate they don’t quite cover the entire mark. We see the thick register hands in 2.5m serials. We see these hands paired with printed logo SWISS T 25 dials and black main hands.
These should all have “85” engraving on the movement [1].
These thick hands are very difficult to source. The last set seen was in 2019 on eBay, at $1,090 for all three. Ouch.
Universal Geneve does not provide date information on the shift between different hand styles, so we are left to make estimates based upon known Extract and original owner information [1].
[1] Universal Geneve, email April 17, 2020
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Crown
There are two main crown designs original to the Universal Geneve 885103/02 “Nina Rindt”.
The crowns commonly found on the Universal Geneve 885103/02
Early pieces feature the “shield” design, with a pointed bottom to the shield and U within, as shown in the above image, top row. This version appears up to a 2.5m serial, and is broken into two versions, those with a ridge at the edge and featuring smaller knurling (above top left image, 2.4) and those without ridge and less knurling (top right, 2.5).
In the second design the “U” stands on its own (above bottom left image). This version appears from 2.4m and later, and does have some crossover with the shield crown during the point of transition (2.4-2.5m). There may have been an extended period of transition to these crowns, or perhaps some of the 2.4m pieces have had their crowns replaced with this later crown design. When contacted, Universal Geneve deferred on providing information on the date of the shift from shield to U-only logo [1].
On occasion we will see a “fat” Universal logo (above, bottom right image). This logo is also referenced on Omegaforums via Universal Watch Geneve by Pietro Sala, as in the period for the Nina (1960s), in between the shield and U-only logos. However, I believe this is not correct, and rather the design is a later logo (not the 1960 period shown), and is not original to the Universal Geneve 885103/02. As an example, we see the U-only logo on the early Golden and White Shadows with serial numbers in the 2.6-2.9m serial range (examples such as 2.6 and 2.97m). We then see the “fat” logo on pieces with serials in the later 3.0-3.5m serial range.
Of course, we also see replacement crowns with no logo. These are not original to the 885103/02.
[1] Per Universal Geneve (email April 17, 2020), these documents are confidential.
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Caseback
The casebacks of all Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” are flat, with stamping/engraving, which are often worn and can be difficult to read.
There are two exterior caseback designs for the UG 885103/02. Both versions have the reference number (as 885103/02), with the serial number below at the “base”.
These is a very wide range of stamping/etching appearance for the reference and serial number. Some I believe were likely etched later and are not original to the watch, and perhaps the same for some stamping. Some will have a mark (‘) to break up the serial number (as with 2’453’303), and some will not (2569258).
Some casebacks feature the text STAINLESS STEEL (top line) and SWISS (just below), centered at the “top” of the back of the case (in line above the reference and serial). We see pieces both with and without this text within the same range, and I haven’t been able to determine when it appears.
I have not seen a relationship between when the mark is included within the serial number, as discussed above, and when the STAINLESS STEEL SWISS text is included. Do not read into the below that STAINLESS STEEL SWISS text always has serial numbers with an apostrophe, or that those without the STAINLESS STEEL SWISS text have serials without an apostrophe.
Example stamping on casebacks of Universal Geneve 885013/02
The inside caseback design is the same across all pieces. They are stamped with, horizontally aligned: the Universal Geneve shield logo (near the top), empty space in the center of the back, then ‘ACIER INOXYDABLE’ (small text), ‘SWISS’ (larger text), and finally the Huguenin Freres logo. The lowest serials (2.41) seem to have somewhat distinctive concentric circles within the caseback as well.
Example stamping on inside casebacks of Universal Geneve 885013/02
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Movement
The Universal Geneve 885103/02 is powered by a standard Valjoux 72, named the Universal Geneve Calibre 85. The only differences between the Cal 85 and the Valjoux 72 are the engraving on the movement. The Cal 85 employs a flat balance spring.
Within the Nina we see a few different engraving designs:
1. On the bridge, UNIVERSAL GENEVE always, with SWISS appearing just below for serials up to 2.45m (roughly above in line with the screw). For most, 85 is engraved below the text and screw, indicating UG Calibre 85. On some case numbers 2.35 and earlier I have seen 130 engraved – see bottom of this page for details.
2. On the train gear bridge, engraved is either
a. 17 SEVENTEEN JEWELS UNADJUSTED (top of letters is at case edge). No SWISS.
b. SEVENTEEN, and on the row below, 17 JEWELS (bottom of letters at the case edge). Then UNADJUSTED below the screw, and SWISS above the screw.
I have seen each set of train gear bridge engravings on both early and late serials. Unfortunately, with relatively few movement images (please contact me if you have some!), it is difficult to find a pattern.
Example engravings of the Universal Geneve Cal 85
About the Universal Geneve Cal 130
I have seen images of Cal 130s on some early Universal Geneve 885103/02 (and a Universal Geneve 885103/01 caseback watch with a white dial), though this is not unexpected as the Cal 130 preceded the Cal 85, and we see the Cal 130 appear on the earlier Universal Geneve 885103/01s (“Evil Nina”). Universal Geneve confirms that the Cal 130 was used in some “early” 885103/02 pieces (I take “earlier” to imply a serial of 2.35 and possibly, though I have not seen, on 2.41 pieces), with the bridge engraved “130” in the mid-1960s, and “some years later” the 85 bridge [1]. I will include a 885103/02 Cal 130 image when I find one (if you have one, please contact me. The Cal 130 employs a Breguet hairsping.
[image to come]
[1] Universal Geneve (email April 17, 2020).
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Bracelet and Strap
The Universal Geneve 885103/02 “Nina Rindt” can be found on one of two bracelet and clasp designs, as well as a leather strap.
Bracelet
Earlier pieces can be found paired with a Gay Freres double-grain beads of rice (DGBOR) bracelet, and clasp with shield logo design (see below). Given how few these are, it is difficult to say which, is any, are original to the watch.
The inside of the clasp is stamped
BREVETE STEELINOX
Followed by the Gay Freres logo and UG stamp
Then SWISSMADE
And lastly, the quarter (1-4) and last two digits of bracelet production.
On later pieces we see the clasp with logo of the U-only, within a box, paired with a bracelet that is not exactly double-grain, but roughly similar in appearance.. The inside of the clasp is stamped
STAINLESS STEEL
MADE IN U.S.A.
followed by the Universal Geneve logo, with shield though.
I do not know the maker of this bracelet.
Endlinks stamped ‘UW’ are generally accepted as the correct links to pair with the Universal Geneve 885103/02, though we see a number of pieces using endlinks of different shapes that are not stamped.
Details of the bracelets, clasps and endlinks found on the Universal Geneve Nina
I have seen examples of JB Champion bracelets in use with Ninas. Others have noted, however, that the JB Champion endlinks do not fit Compax cases. Given this, it is unclear whether those bracelets were original to the Nina, or simply an option that some owners purchased after acquiring their watch.
Strap
Another rare find is an original Universal Geneve strap and buckle. The original strap with be found in patterned black leather, with the pointed U logo on the buckle.
Details of the strap and bracelet found on the Universal Geneve 885103/02 Top: OmegaForums, user Florent Bottom: rarebirds
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Functions and Use
The Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” functions in the same manner as other chronographs of the period.
It is manually wound, so you’ll need to wind the crown clockwise to wind the mainspring and power the watch, until you feel resistance. As the Nina is not an automatic watch, it can be overwound, so do not continue winding once it once you feel that tension.
To set the time, pull the crown slightly away from the case, and then turn clockwise.
There are two pushers, on the same side of the case as the crown, to operate and reset the chronograph. The top button will start and stop the chronograph (you do not need to reset the chronograph if you wish to start the chronograph again), and the lower button will reset all chronograph hands to 0. When the chronograph is running, the center chronograph seconds hand will continuously move, the minute register hand at 3 o’clock will advance once step each minute (so the register hand will always be on one of the minute marks), and the hour register hand at 6 o’clock will continuously advance.
The functions of the Universal Geneve 885103/02
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Box and Papers
For some a NOS Universal Geneve Nina just isn’t enough…it needs the original box and papers too.
It is tough to say which the correct pairing is, as:
– I don’t know anyone who is the original purchaser of a Universal Geneve 885103/02 that has box and papers. More often than not, collectors will reference that their box and papers are “original”. And they may have come with the watch, or are a later addition to the watch but of the period, I just haven’t been able to tell.
– It is not unusual for resellers to have used a different set of box and papers for different pieces – they did not arrive from the manufacturer as a specific set.
– Boxes/paper design over time will change.
It is, however, difficult for me to believe that a set would have originally been purchased with different logos (see the FAQ on the Universal Geneve Ninda Rindt crown for details on logo design over time) – for example, an applied logo dial with a (later) fat logo box.
To date I have seen paired:
– 2.4m with applied logo, U-only tall rectangular box (red top with black bottom, white with gold and red print interior), shield logo guarantee (pink with gold print) and shield logo other paper (blue with black print)
– 2.5m with printed logo, U-only cube box (red with gold print on exterior, dark yellow with black print interior)
– applied logo, shield rectangular deep box (black with gold print on exterior, red interior with gold print), shield logo guarantee (pink with gold print)
– printed logo, U-only cube box (red with gold print on exterior, dark yellow with black print interior), fat logo guarantee (white with blue print)
– 2.5m with printed logo, fat logo flat rectangular box (dark blue with white interior and blue print), U-only logo guarantee (blue with gold print), shield logo on another paper (blue with black print)
– 2.4m with applied logo, fat logo cube box (white with white interior and blue print), and U-only logo guarantee (blue with gold print)
– applied logo, fat cube box (black with silver print on exterior, white with blue print on interior)
The mishmash of boxes and papers seen with the Universal Geneve 885013/02
Universal Geneve “Nina Rindt” Price Trends
The below price trend chart helps us understand what is happening in the market.
Caveats:
– The price points are often *asking* prices from dealers and forums, when final prices are not known (the asking price can often be 20% or more above the final sale price)
– There are some clear public sale outliers, one from Christie’s in 2015 for $47,500, a couple sales in the $30ks, and one from Phillips in 2018 for just under $29k. In 2021, with less quality vintage pieces available, we see a good sale at Christie’s Online for $27,500.
The filters in the table will drive both what is displayed in the table, as well as in the price trends chart.
Unfortunately, the plugin used to generate the chart below may cause the chart to squished horizontally. As a workaround, if you adjust your browser window size slightly, the chart with adjust to proper full width.
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