The seller
You may want to limit your purchasing to just dealers with brick and mortar locations so you can knock on their door. Or maybe you are fine with an online dealer. Or auction houses.
Also check out the FAQ on who to trust when buying a vintage watch.
What matters to you?
Figure out what matters to you. Do you need a watch in NOS (New Old Stock) condition? Do you even care if it has original parts? What if it has a beautiful-looking replacement dial? Is it polished? Hands? Does the strap matter? What if it was relumed? How easy will it be to find replacement parts when needed?
Time to research!
- Know what the watch should look like: the text, the dial, hands, case, the movement, the case and caseback (see our Vintage Watch Resources section). Do your homework on the model and history. Find others of the same model that have previously sold. Read books. Find old manufacturer catalogs. Check images of the same reference online. Talk to other watch fans. Search, search, search the forums. Go through the basics – do the hands look as expected? The dial? Crown? Case? Walk through these one-by-one.
- Does the watch even “look” right? This “sniff test” is one that I use more and more, as I start to focus less on the seller (though it is still key).
- Is it a 60 year old watch that has not even a ding?
- Is the bezel beat up but the case is perfect?
- Does the dial show signs of water damage but the hands are perfect?
- Does the lume just look too good for a watch of its age?
- Does the hand lume match the dial lume?
- Is the printing on the dial correct? (and make sure there are no errors, as we see in this example from Roman Rea with a misspelling on the dial (incredible that they sold that this as-is, without even referencing a redial…or error)
- Does the serial/case number look to be etched correctly (consistent with other examples)
- Are the brushstrokes on the case correct? (this is subtle)
- What are the serial number/movement/case numbers (some watches may only have one number, some multiple, and they can appear in different locations). The seller should be willing to provide these. I would not buy a watch without knowing the serial or case number, unless I had a guarantee that I could return the watch. The seller may have a completely unnatural fear of someone stealing the serial number, engraving it perfectly on another watch, selling it online, someone else finding both the original correct watch with the number and the fake watch with the number, that person then would not be able to tell which is fake, and this will then call into question whether the watch that they offered for sale long ago was fake or not (which would have no impact on them, regardless). But I digress.
Having the serial number allows you to:- Confirm against production date tables to ensure it is correct
- Research if the watch has been previously sold, and if so, the sale price (to make sure you aren’t getting taken, or at least to provide a reference point) and the condition at time of prior sale(s)
- The watch is stolen or is a forgery, and by providing the number you will be able to run a search and determine this (see the Alpha Hands stolen watch registry, for starters)
- Some watches do NOT have a serial number. It is possible that it wore off over time from use, or overpolishing. These watches generally receive lower prices when sold, due to this lack of information. It’s not a dealbreaker for everyone, just keep in mind that when and if you sell the piece, that it does rule out a set of potential buyers. In addition, you will not be able to get an Extract.
- If you aren’t a watchmaker, check the movement images versus others found online through an image search or using Ranfft Watches (unfortunately the images are rather small and can be of poor quality, but this resource can still be useful). Look at all the detail…are all the screws there? Any rust? Correcting stamping on the components?
Requesting images
If you are not able to inspect the watch in person, you will want to get all the images you can:- Movement photos, preferably multiple, with the rotor in different positions for automatic watches. There are lots of dealers who will push back on opening a caseback to provide images of the movement and inside caseback. Some will say they don’t have the right tool, some will say they don’t want to risk damaging the movement or case. However, every watch dealer, if they are not comfortable opening a caseback (understandable at times), should have a watchmaker at their disposal to assist them. I would not recommend purchasing a vintage watch without seeing movement images. You’ll never know what you might find…the movement scratched to bits…rust…swapped movement or parts… If you decide to press on with the purchase without pictures of the movement from the seller, then all you can do is make an educated guess based on the condition from the rest of the watch. So ask yourself: Does the dial look OK? Original crown and pushers? Crystal? Is the caseback not scratched up from someone trying to claw their way inside (if so, what does it look like on the inside)? And what level of risk are you willing to take?
- Pictures of the dial under UV light (tritium, for example, has a half life of 12.3 years, so the lume on vintage pieces with tritium won’t glow brightly or for a long period of time as compared to other dials).
- The watch from all angles, so you know exactly what you are getting
Condition
Regarding overall condition, and you have to decide how much these matter to you, if at all, consider:- Has the case been polished (are the lugs thinner than they should be? Are the lug holes for spring bars crisp at the edge, or are they rounded, possibly indicating polishing)
- What is the lume condition on hands and dial?li>
- Are the lume marks/dots (if any) still on the dial?
- Does the movement show sign of rust or abuse? Any missing screws, heavy scratching, etc.?
- Beware any signs of water in the watch. Some nice patina (aging) is fine, but water marks on the dial or lume that looks dirty can be a warning sign of damage to the movement as well. Movement photos will help provide information, but even then we have had watches that needed to be removed before we could see what rust issues were inside, and weren’t visible from the a movement picture.
Help from others
And for additional help (since everyone can use another opinion):- Post a request for feedback on a watch to forums.
And thank all those community members that are generous enough to share their knowledge! Of course, the downside is someone might see the watch only through your post, know more about the watch than you do (more assuredly in our case), have the dollars at the ready, and snap it up themselves. - If there is an individual that has spent significant time researching that model, reach out to them. The watch community is filled with people who are generous with their time, and happy to help others. Just don’t take advantage of anyone’s kindess!
- Get a Certificate of Authenticity, if available.
There are a few manufacturers that will certify that your watch is original through a physical inspection and provide a Certificate of Authenticity. This differs from an Extract from the Archives, which provides production information and is generally based solely based on case and movement number, does not require physical inspection, and does not guarantee the authenticity of a watch or its components. I have heard secondhand of one company that actually knowingly authenticated pieces that weren’t correct, and boy do I hope that is that only case where that happened (one situation for a limited time). You can read more on details of the (significant) limitations of Extracts.
Questions for the seller
When you have found a watch of interest, feel free to ask the seller questions. When I first started getting into this crazy hobby, I would ask a slew of questions about the condition. It took quite some time to grasp that many sellers will flat-out lie, or conveniently neglect to mention important information.So while I might still ask questions like the below, I do it with a grain of salt, and often just to see how the seller will respond (especially if I already know the answer to one of the questions):
- Have the hands or dial been replaced? Or refinished/redial/repaint/restored/washed?
- Does the movement show any signs of rust? Scratches?
- If on a bracelet, what are the markings on the bracelet (manufacturer, date of production, etc.)? Does it come with all links?
- Where did the watch come from? The original owner? Another dealer? How long has the seller owned the watch and why are they selling?
- What is its service history? What was done to the watch and who was the watchmaker?
- Is it keeping time (how much time does the watch gain or lose in 24 hours)? How long does it run when fully wound?
- Does the selling believe all the parts are original to the watch? (never blindly believe the seller answer – I like to ask just to see how they respond, and if they call out something I might have otherwise missed)
Sellers may modify in any number of ways, some mentioned above. Those changes aren’t necessarily “bad”, and you may not even care, but it should always be disclosed. And this is one area in which the business is notoriously poor.
For context, here is a nice quote from Ben Clymer from Hodinkee (from the Hodinkee Radio podcast with Eric Wind, Episode 75, starting at 1hr 10m):
“I would guess that three dealers in Italy have touched more than half of, say, the 1518s yellow in the world…And so, if those guys are into fixing up cases or polishing or whatever for ten years of their career, then 50% of those watches have issues and have had some work done to it.
And the idea of dial-swapping, you have a killer unpolished 6241 regular dial, and then you find an amazing 6239 Paul Newman, put the dial into the 6241, and that’s just what people did.” [some might say do]
We know those watches are in the market, we know it still happens, but if people found out they would freak out, they would explode…[if] they had a watch that has a dial swapped on. If they really knew what was happening over the past 20 years, they would be shocked.”So just keep in mind that even if sellers say “mint condition” or “original”, they might be omitting information or stretching the truth. ‘Trust but verify’ is the key (or just ‘verify’, if you prefer). Oh, and generally speaking, “lightly polished” or “previously polished” = polished (sometimes a LOT). “Original condition” for some sellers simply means that has period-correct parts, though they might be swapped from other pieces. “Mint condition” to me usually means that the watch has been polished to look like new. Not my thing, but you might not mind. Again, just as long as it is disclosed.
Manufacturer information
For some pieces you may be able to obtain information from the manufacturer on the production history of the watch (production date, where first sold or destination, case/movement numbers, etc.). And for a fee you can also request a ‘Extract from the Archives’ (note, not the same as a ‘Certificate of Authenticity’) from some manufacturers as well.